People that post their own poems but don't comment on those of others.

[Guest]

[carter]

We all know who they are.

Isn't it just common courtesy to give your two cents about what others have posted, too, rather than waiting like some literary Sarlacc for fat fat comments on your own work? Or am I just like one of those old guys that goes on about it being a more simple time when they were young whippersnappers?

I'm off to get my linament. My joints are swelling in this cold.

Carter.

[JB]

I know exactly what you mean, Carter. Back when I was a young'un everybody used to comment on everybody else's poems, just out of common courtesy, even if they had nothing particulary edifying to say. Nowadays there're all these hooligans who don't give a shit about anybody else's poetry, but just walk the poetic streets in their hoodies and only log on to forums in order to read and reply to anyone who's fool enough to read and reply to them, and them alone. it's downright rude if you ask me, and as big-headed as elephant men. but what can you do? ah dornt bloody nor.....

[Ploe]

We're here to grovel in others art anyhow. If we just wantyed to read our own stuff we'd sit, write our shit, and look at it on our own. Perhaps even take it out in a wee filofax to show the others how it's done whilst we're skidoo-ing about the city. And all those that see simply say "I really like it..." either because they don't get it, it means nothing or because they like it. Where are the peeps fire, bring on the brimstone, you'll only get what you give. Unless it's love, apparently that grows.

[~vxn~]

perhaps some don't feel qualified to comment--like they've no right ot criticize.  maybe? 

[Tiny Montgomery]

an optimistic, openhearted view, but... erm... maybe not, i think.

[Ploe]

Screw being qualified, if we have to read their bullshit, they should our bullshit about their bullshit. You have to remember this is UD. Look at the letters page, we should all have the same furious "you're here to see me" attitude.

[carter]

perhaps some don't feel qualified to comment--like they've no right ot criticize.  maybe? 

This is ok up to a point, but sooner or later you have to put yourself at the disposal of others. Posting poem after poem and ignoring others is tantamount to spam. As Ploe said, the UD attitude is that we love our art so much it makes us puke pure creative bile - how can we claim to love art if we don't get involved with the art that people have risked getting out there?

Carter.

[~vxn~]

indeed, indeed.  point taken.

[Ploe]

I've still noticed no change in how people deal with the other artists. The current climate is far too tame, we honestly need sick and sinew blasting all over the words.

[Vix0r]

I like criticising, but more often that not does it not seem that only when positive criticism is received that it is taken into account? In other words, only when somebody who likes what's been written and says the bits they liked best is it taken into account.

Get off your high horses and accept that sometimes you're fucking shit.

And I'm not going to spell criticising with a zed. I hate zeds.

[~vxn~]

there could always be rules.  rules are the devil... sometimes a necessary devil. 

(i actually mod a poetry site... when i bother ot show up.) 

there you may post up to 3 poems per day only.  you must comment on 3 poems from poets other than yourself.  works out pretty good that way.

just a thought.

[Vix0r]

No rules. writing is about freedom. If you think making me post and comment three times as a rule is a good thing, you can fuck off.

[Ploe]

Being forced to comment three things does seem a little harsh, however I don't recall vxn stating that she'll make you do three comments a day.

I couldn't force you to, and I'm guessing I could manipulate you hard woman!

[Mr. Goldberg]

No rules. writing is about freedom. If you think making me post and comment three times as a rule is a good thing, you can fuck off.

....ahhhh what a charming young lady !!! Like something out of the Railway Children....

[Ploe]

Alright, alright! What's going on in The Crucible these days? I'm far too scared to rip jugulars beause everyone is being ever so civil. Cliques have formed, where a few poets will scratch another poet's back for the same in return. It's the dull drone of "Hey man you're cool!" - "No man! You're cool!" That's fucking boring! How can I actually give feedback, when in contrast I'll look like an utter bastard...

Learn to criticise viciously, or constructively! PLEASE!

[Pater]

Alright, alright! What's going on in The Crucible these days? I'm far too scared to rip jugulars beause everyone is being ever so civil. Cliques have formed, where a few poets will scratch another poet's back for the same in return. It's the dull drone of "Hey man you're cool!" - "No man! You're cool!" That's fucking boring! How can I actually give feedback, when in contrast I'll look like an utter bastard...

Learn to criticise viciously, or constructively! PLEASE!

Well, I could agree with the comment regarding the uselessness of cliques on any board. Trouble is, you have always given me the impression of being in one on here yourself. And you can take that or leave it.

[Ploe]

I'll leave it.

[Pater]

I'll leave it.

There's a good lad.

[Mr. Goldberg]

Ahhh Leave it. take it - take it, leave it ...old Uncle Barney used to say to me, "Nat if you can't take it - leave it. If you can't leave it grab the lot the lot and run quick before the Police helicopter gets chance to swoop."

One man's takings is another man's leavings.

[Ploe]

The Mob! Get out there! Now! And tell those poets what you reckon to their poems. GO NOW!

[Mr. Goldberg]

I think the poems on here are exceedingly good...and nice.

[Ploe]

Tell them then, not me.

[Mr. Goldberg]

...Did I say you were exceedingly good and nice ?

Oh dear. Oh dear. Oh dear.

If only my friend Mccann was 'ere...

[Flying_whizzabe]

:] I prefer to read other peoples, I STOPPED POSTING because it was all in all less fun.
I generally just love everything so it starts to sound bland or patronising when I comment.
My comments have a ugly voice. sorry guys. :]

[Mr. Goldberg]

Yes but the primary rule for any writer ( at least that's what my Writing for Pleasure & Profit books I read when I was younger told me) was was that ANY writer by definition MUST have  some sort of an audience for feedback/criticism be it family, friends, enemies or UD   ...whether you act on it or not. It's no good sitting in the Ivory Tower "Quilling off" if no one's reading it.

Otherwise you're simply gushing out from within regardless of how it looks from the outside. I think with writing the writer can get so self involved  the  writer  cannot see it from the outside or how it will be received.

...which is a problem because many writers are self-involved as people.

One big hurdle I think is that while the writing might "feel" right to you the writer, unless it contains some quality of universality with which others can to some extent identify/empathise...you may as well write a book in double dutch or  a shopping list.

That in itself is the scary bit...they say a good actor is the one taking all the risks because he/she has to emotionally/psychologically/spiritually expose him/herself on stage literally under a spotlight in front of perhaps 2000 people...I've actually played parts on stage which incorporated portraying negative aspects of myself and it can be shaming/painful...but necessary in giving a true representation of the role.
Doing a fine Hamlet in front of your bedroom mirror is all well and good but if no one else is watching you can't call yourself an actor.


Which is why that Salinger scenario (see thread) intrigues me ...an accomplished writer like him who has withdrawn as a reaction...becoming too big for himself and then having to live with it behind locked doors must be terrible. The one thing he is (a writer) he can now no longer be - by his own life outlook. Almost like a painter who is allergic to watercolours. Or a world class racing car driver who can't handle petrol fumes. A writer who can never be read...

That said I'd also say that most people don't know how to criticise properly...constructively, creatively even, the majority not being qualified to criticise in the true sense if the word... "It's crap" or "I didn't mind that." is just pointless. Unless a critic can justify the criticisms he shouldn't be criticising in the first place ( which is why I'm wary of criticising). If you do criticise...prepare to be criticised yourself.

One tip I would offer (which I apply to myself) is whatever you've written...leave it a couple of  days, forget about it, then go back to it as though it's the first time you've ever read it...besides spotting glaring spelling/punctuation/grammar errors...the actual content/treatment may then appear faulty too.
The majority (85% of what I've written has never seen the light of day...inverse Salinger syndrome ). Of which 65% went in the bin. Which is why I don't want to be a writer. Or an actor. If that makes sense.

For me teaching Creative Writing was far more fulfilling ; seeing student personalities much better at it than me flourish and develop which is why I come on here.